[wingide-users] Some thoughts

Ken Kinder kkinder at gmail.com
Mon Aug 22 23:17:43 MDT 2011


Just to throw my two cents in, I also tried PyCharm (briefly), though I'm
sure it has progressed some since I tried it. There were some glossy
features and in particular, I think PyCharm's widgets just use less space.
Wing's GTK widgets, regardless of the theme I run, seem to be bulky and
there are fewer visual ques (icons and the like). Wing's large footprint on
my screen is especially acute when my laptop is undocked. So I'm +1 for
making Wing consume fewer pixels with the chrome of the product. And some
low-key, monochromatic icons for tabs couldn't hurt.

But for what Wing lacks in features or eye candy, it makes up in pure
stability, usefulness, and support. I can't recall a single time, in using
WingIDE since v1.0, that it ever caused me to lose so much as a single line
of code to a crash. The only other IDEs I've experienced that level of
stability with are Emacs and Turbo C++ for DOS in the mid 90s. PyCharm
crashed on me within 10 minutes of using it and I uninstalled it without a
second thought. There are bugs in Wing, certainly, and I've pestered the
developers many times over the years with reports. But I've never had a bug
bring down the IDE in such a way that I lose my work. And I've been using
WingIDE since I think around 2000 -- so 11 years.

The other thing about Wing is that while its feature list might not be as
complete as other IDEs, the features that do exist are rock solid and
pragmatically designed: chief among them being the Search In Files tool.
PyDev on Eclipse has always had fancy refactoring, but I'd rather have a
reliable and powerful search and replace tool that I can count on to a black
box wizard that probably works most of the time. It's lower tech, but the
Search In Files tool on Wing is better than anything I've ever used. It
weened me off grep. In PyCharm, I'd probably go back to grep and cry the
whole time.

So to me, Wing doesn't do everything, but everything it does do, it does
well. I like Wingware's conservative approach to development and their
respect for my time: never has an upgrade gotten in my way. I'm hoping for
continued stability more than I'm hoping for an explosion of new features.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:38 PM, <ristretto.rb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Wingsters,
>
> Thanks for a great product.  I have used it over the last few years,
> and have recommended it to others.  As it turns out, though, I'm
> working for a shop that is requiring I use PyCharm, which I did for a
> few weeks.  But, now that I've been here for a while, I've gone back
> to Wing.  So, I have both system fresh in my recent experience.
>
> I have to say, PyCharm, feature for feature, is starting to make me a
> little concerned about Wing.  But, in fairness, I know that PyCharm
> does a lot of indexing and data collection that makes it seem slow at
> times and clunky at times.  But, it's not too bad.  Wing on the
> otherhand, doesn't bother the user much with indexing and such, which
> is nice, but makes for a some limited user experience compared to
> PyCharm.
>
> I'm running the licensed versions of both product on Ubuntu 11.04 with
> a modest i5 processor new Dell machine.
>
> Here are my thoughts in order of importance to me
>
> 1.  I've recently switched to a vertically pivoted monitor, and code
> to 79 columns pep-8.    Having the open files in a horizontal tab line
> at the top is makes it very hard to find open files.  (PyCharm uses
> tabs, but stacks them so they are all visible, and I have lots of
> vertical space.)  What I would dearly like is a list of open files
> down one side of the window.  Can this be done with a plugin?  Can I
> built it?
> 2.  Open From Project is slowish to open, and if I start typing too
> soon, I get text in my current open window.  This window could use
> some power tools like tab completion.  I would use this instead of a
> open files list, if it was fast and quick to use.
> 3.  Is there a way to copy the path to the current file on the
> clipboard?  Sometimes I need to know it to paste somewhere else.
>
> This are real troubling.  I really wish I had support for this things
> immediately.  I d
>
> I do like the fact that Wing stays out of the way.  Even though
> PyCharm will do some syntax checking on screen, and alert me of needed
> imports, and of unneeded ones, I'm happy to use Pep8, PyFlake and/or
> PyLint plugins in, instead.
>
> Some of the features of PyCharm that make it shine are it's ability to
> follow more paths that Wing can in source analysis.  Here are some
> examples
> 1.  super(SomeObject, self).save(*args, **kwargs).  Clicking on save
> should follow the hierarchy to find def save()
> 2.  Django code has this sort of code alot:  obj =
> DjangoModelObject.objects....  Seems like that could be as good as
> isinstance to tell you what obj is
> 3.  parameter help
>
> I think putting isinstance in my code is a no goer.  The PyCharm
> coders wouldn't stand for it.
>
> Here are some other things I'd love to see, but aren't deal breakers.
>
> 1.  return in a # comment considers the next line a comment too and puts in
> a #
> 2.  git annotate for git integration
> 3.  copy the default file sets so I could start with and existing one
> to then customize
>
> Thanks for a great product.  Please convince me that you'll be keeping
> up with PyCharm.  I will be heading back to PyCharm now to be fair and
> see if it bugs me, and what it's pitfalls are.  I'll report back if
> you like.
>
> Thanks
> Gene
> _________________________________________________
> Wing IDE users list
> http://wingware.com/lists/wingide
>
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