[wingide-users] Wing 2.1.0-b1 creates fileswithoutfinal newline on Windows

Doran_Dermot@emc.com Doran_Dermot at emc.com
Sun Mar 19 18:07:49 EST 2006


Well I shall certainly not make any further attempts at humor nor
speculate on the logic behind a well established standard.\r\n


Dermot Doran
Office: +353-21-4281500 (x5474)
Mobile: +31-6-55815258
Worldwide Customer Support Number: + 800 782 43622

-----Original Message-----
From: wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com
[mailto:wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com] On Behalf Of Tom Stambaugh
Sent: 19 March 2006 17:48
To: wingide-users at wingware.com
Subject: Re: [wingide-users] Wing 2.1.0-b1 creates fileswithoutfinal
newline on Windows

I'm all for cynicism, especially as applied to Microsoft, but in this
case 
it's actually misplace.

The Windows/DOS usage is, in fact, a completely defensible solution and
was 
used long before MS adopted it -- I could be wrong, but I think this was
the 
standard for all the Digital OS's of the 70's and 80's (RT-11, RSX-11, 
RSTS-11, VAX, etc).

Here's the rationale:

CR is "return" -- on a teletype (yes, that's where it came from), this
moves 
the carriage to the beginning of the SAME line.
LF is "linefeed" -- on a teletype, moves the carriage down one line (at
the 
same character position).

So "CR/LF" means "return to the leftmost position, then move down a
line" --  
precisely what you want to do. There was, as I recall, passionate debate

about whether the "proper" sequence was "CR/LF" or "LF/CR", with the
former 
winning out.

If you want to do ascii art, which was the only graphic option possible
in 
that era, then it was absolutely vital to have the two separate
operations.

Hence, when UNIX (I think this is where it began) began abbreviating
"\n" to 
mean "CR/LF", a large segment of the community objected, with some 
substance, that this made life MUCH harder and was simply wrong.
Microsoft, 
and DOS, came down on the "conservative" side of the fence. By the way,
just 
to make life complicated, Apple completed the fiasco by standardizing on
CR 
as its standard line terminator.

So in this case, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that "CR/LF" 
("\r\n") is the "standard", and "\r" (in the Mac) and "\n" in *nix are
two 
abbreviations for the standard.

Thanks,
Tom

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Doran_Dermot at emc.com>
To: <msoulier at digitaltorque.ca>
Cc: <wingide-users at wingware.com>; <rene at lab.applinet.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [wingide-users] Wing 2.1.0-b1 creates files withoutfinal 
newline on Windows


> My mistake!  I should have realized that Windoze would do something
you
> hadn't asked it to do and then call it a standard :-)
>
> Cheers!!
>
>
> Dermot Doran
> Office: +353-21-4281500 (x5474)
> Mobile: +31-6-55815258
> Worldwide Customer Support Number: + 800 782 43622
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael P. Soulier [mailto:msoulier at digitaltorque.ca]
> Sent: 19 March 2006 14:51
> To: Doran, Dermot
> Cc: rene at lab.applinet.nl; wingide-users at wingware.com
> Subject: Re: [wingide-users] Wing 2.1.0-b1 creates files without final
> newline on Windows
>
> Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
>> Hi Rene,
>>
>> I really don't know if I'm going off on a tangent here but, if you
>> finish a line with a <carriage-return><new-line> sequence that means
> you
>> have a new line which would require a <carriage-return><new-line>
> which
>> would be a new line that would .....
>>
>> More of an observation rather than attempt to say you are wrong.
>
> No, \r\n is simply a proper line termination on Winblows. And, if the
> file is DOS file format, I certainly would expect that.
>
> There's a question. In Vim I can easily convert between Winblows file
> format and Unix file format. Is this simple in WingIDE?
>
> Mike
> -- 
> Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at digitaltorque.ca>
> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It
> takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite
> direction." --Albert Einstein
> _________________________________________________
> Wing IDE users list
> http://wingware.com/lists/wingide
> 



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