Why do Subversion Thrigh Wing? RE: [wingide-users] Subversionagain

[Vania Smrkovski]

I dunno.  For me, what sticks out is the grand scenario of having entire
collections of directories and files added, moved or deleted.  In my mind,
the bottom line is, given the existance of a meta-file which manages the
contents of a project (as in Wing's .wpr file), you immediately have a need
to integrate your source controls to match.  Otherwise, you run the risk of
some developers being disciplied enough (as you apparently are) to use
external tools, while others might be sloppy enough to just svn update their
individual files and never being aware that the structure has changed.

I'm not saying you can do a great job with a project by not adding that
integration.  But the whole point of version control, be it CVS, Subversion
or Visual Source Safe, is that some of the team members are less careful
than others, and the system is there to protect the project from harm.

If all you had were fantastic developers, source control systems would be
less critical in the first place.

Vania


On 7/31/06, Walker Hale <walkerh at picoscript.com> wrote:
>
> I hadn't thought about checkout/checkin. In most cases, I would avoid
> version control systems that require checkout before editing a file, but
> if
> I were using one then limited integration with the IDE would be valuable
> to
> me. All I would really want is for the editor to offer to checkout any
> file
> that I tried to edit but was not already checked out. I might also want
> the
> project view to graphically distinguish the various states of files, but
> this would not be nearly as important.
>
> -Walker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com
> [mailto:wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wheeler
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:27 PM
> To: Wingide-Users
> Subject: RE: Why do Subversion Thrigh Wing? RE: [wingide-users]
> Subversionagain
>
> I believe that SVN's edit...commit model negates some of the main
> advantages
> of integrated version control.  Integration is much more important with
> the
> more usual checkout...checkin model, ala VSS, Clearcase, and Perforce (to
> a
> degree).  It's a serious developer boon that SVN doesn't lock files.
>
> btw, I have a django/feedjack site (feed aggregator) on version control:
> http://planetscm.org/
>
>
> -andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com
> [mailto:wingide-users-bounces at wingware.com] On Behalf Of Ken Kinder
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:04 PM
> To: Walker Hale
> Cc: Wingide-Users
> Subject: Re: Why do Subversion Thrigh Wing? RE: [wingide-users]
> Subversionagain
>
> I find that I seldom commit files directly from WingIDE, but I use the
> diff
> alot. For that matter, I seldom run my projects directly from WingIDE --
> except for debugging.
>
> It's mostly whether the SVN task directly relates to editing. If I need to
> do some merging, it's handy to have the diff right there in Wing.
>
> What would make Wing's SVN integration more useful would be icons in the
> project manager showing the state of each file/directory.
>
> On 7/31/06, Walker Hale <walkerh at picoscript.com> wrote:
> > Vania,
> >
> > I am copying these comments to windide-users, since others will have
> equally
> > strong opinions.
> >
> > I use Subversion, but I don't use Wing's integration! I haven't even
> tried
> > Wing's integration, so I can't answer questions about it.
> >
> > I have two reasons for this:
> >
> > (1) No IDE can do everything. Sooner or later, there is some kind of
> file
> > that you will want to work on outside of your IDE. Managing that
> file's
> > version history through the IDE is just extra work.
> >
> > Whether it is HTML, SQL, XML, JavaScript, graphics, or proprietary
> data in a
> > custom tool, sooner or later I find that I must work outside my IDE.
> Some
> > IDEs like Eclipse try to answer this objection by trying to do
> absolutely
> > everything. I believe that this is counterproductive. For example,
> Eclipse
> > will never catch up with Microsoft's tools for developing on SQL
> Server.
> >
> > (2) Sometimes, I may work with more than one IDE. (In my  previous
> job, we
> > used Eclipse for Java development and MS Visual Studio for C++
> development
> > -- while working on the SAME GAME.) It makes no sense to master the
> version
> > control integration capabilities of any particular IDE, since IDE's
> change
> > with the language I am working in.
> >
> > So instead of bothering with the version control integration of IDEs,
> I
> > master one good version control client for each computer platform I
> work
> > with.
> >
> > For Windows, I use TortoiseSVN. For Mac OS, there is something
> similar. For
> > certain administrative tasks, I go to the command line. I even have a
> python
> > script that incrementally dumps my repository to a ZIP file. In this
> way, if
> > I have to move away from Wing for some project, there will be
> absolutely no
> > impact on version control.
> >
> > In my opinion, version control is orthogonal to what I consider the
> core
> > tasks of an IDE: editing, debugging, and browsing. Any attempt by IDE
> > developers to reinvent yet another perfect version control client is
> mostly
> > wasted effort. Unfortunately, it is something that IDE developers
> simply
> > must do so that version control integration can appear on competitive
> > feature lists.
> >
> > -Walker
> >
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