Why do Subversion Thrigh Wing? RE: [wingide-users] Subversion again

Vania Smrkovski vania at pandorasdream.com
Mon Jul 31 10:30:28 MDT 2006

Thanks, Walker.  I am always interested in learning how tools are used by
developers in general, so I hope your email does generate some of those
other strong opinions :-).

Myself, I prefer having strong integration, when a certain level of that
integration has been met.  That is to say, Micro$oft has done a good job of
integrating Visual Studio with Visual Source Safe by forcing the IDE to take
over responsibility for the notion of a "project", which doesn't exist in
VSS on its own.  When I create a solution in VS, I can add it to VSS and
know that another user can check out the solution by finding just the
solution file, and all related projects and folders are obtained.  Using VSS
as a parallel application makes this much too clumsy a process.

While I understand that working in multiple IDEs and languages can make for
IDE integration difficulties, I find the management of a projects full of
directories and files to be much worse.

I'd like to see WingIDE go in this direction, too.  The very existance of a
project file tightly couples it to the state of the individual files in that
project, and not integrating it to the source control makes for some risks
when new brances of code are added or deleted.

Thoughts anyone?


On 7/31/06, Walker Hale <walkerh at picoscript.com> wrote:
> Vania,
> I am copying these comments to windide-users, since others will have
> equally
> strong opinions.
> I use Subversion, but I don't use Wing's integration! I haven't even tried
> Wing's integration, so I can't answer questions about it.
> I have two reasons for this:
> (1) No IDE can do everything. Sooner or later, there is some kind of file
> that you will want to work on outside of your IDE. Managing that file's
> version history through the IDE is just extra work.
> Whether it is HTML, SQL, XML, JavaScript, graphics, or proprietary data in
> a
> custom tool, sooner or later I find that I must work outside my IDE. Some
> IDEs like Eclipse try to answer this objection by trying to do absolutely
> everything. I believe that this is counterproductive. For example, Eclipse
> will never catch up with Microsoft's tools for developing on SQL Server.
> (2) Sometimes, I may work with more than one IDE. (In my  previous job, we
> used Eclipse for Java development and MS Visual Studio for C++ development
> -- while working on the SAME GAME.) It makes no sense to master the
> version
> control integration capabilities of any particular IDE, since IDE's change
> with the language I am working in.
> So instead of bothering with the version control integration of IDEs, I
> master one good version control client for each computer platform I work
> with.
> For Windows, I use TortoiseSVN. For Mac OS, there is something similar.
> For
> certain administrative tasks, I go to the command line. I even have a
> python
> script that incrementally dumps my repository to a ZIP file. In this way,
> if
> I have to move away from Wing for some project, there will be absolutely
> no
> impact on version control.
> In my opinion, version control is orthogonal to what I consider the core
> tasks of an IDE: editing, debugging, and browsing. Any attempt by IDE
> developers to reinvent yet another perfect version control client is
> mostly
> wasted effort. Unfortunately, it is something that IDE developers simply
> must do so that version control integration can appear on competitive
> feature lists.
> -Walker
> ________________________________
> From: vania.smirk at gmail.com [mailto:vania.smirk at gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> Vania Smrkovski
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:45 AM
> To: Walker Hale
> Subject: Re: [wingide-users] Subversion again
> I will happily do so.  I've sent an ad-hoc list of instructions to my
> collaborator, so if he can make sense of them, I'll use that as a baseline
> for instructions all around.
> Have you found that some integration features are missing in WingIDE?  I
> know obviously that it's still a fairly new addition.  But I am trying to
> compile a list of feature requests for them to add.  For starters, I find
> that focusing on the highlightable files/folders keeps me from remembering
> that the project file itself, or new files/folders have to be updated
> separately via command line.  It would be nice if they could add some
> meta-level integration to update the whole repository, including new
> files/folders, and to update the project file, which I have added to the
> project in the meantime.
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